How 3D Printing is Shaping the Future of Military Logistics with Matt Pine

Matt Pine  00:00
You have to protect what you own. But when we start looking again at contested logistics, how do I get to parts where I'm at when I need them? And part of that is having that tech data available, not all the time, but at least available for us to reach into and support the warfighter wherever they're at, whether that's through DLA or sea basing that can produce things. Who knows? But there has to be some sort of mechanism to get that data to the right spot. So we're sure that what we're producing meets the standards.
 
00:29
we choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Through our blood and your bonds, we crushed the Germans before he got here. You and I have a rendezvous with destiny.
 
Ryan Connell  00:52
This is Ryan quell from the Chief Digital artificial intelligence office. Joined here today with Matt pine. Matt, how you doing?
 
Matt Pine  00:57
Fantastic. How are you? Hey, doing?
 
Ryan Connell  00:59
Well, appreciate it. Appreciate you being on. You want to start by just giving a quick overview of who you are.
 
Matt Pine  01:04
Yeah, absolutely. I am currently the Innovation Officer running the innovation campus here at Camp Lejeune for the Marine Corps, one of the am leads for the Marine Corps, super user, if you will, helping drive the program from the fleet side. Awesome. Yeah,
 
Ryan Connell  01:21
incredible. I'm excited to get into it today. We'll talk we'll talk boats a little bit before we do that, I just want to highlight, I met you a year ago. I think we were just talking. I think was a year ago, January. We both had the opportunity to brief the Defense Innovation Board. I know I have my experience there, but do you want to just highlight some of the your experience and some of the things you talked about?
 
Matt Pine  01:43
Yeah, absolutely, we talked about the struggles of integrating innovative thoughts and processes and people into the DoD kind of what roadblocks are there and missed recommendations for what we can really look at to change systemically, to make a difference. I
 
Ryan Connell  02:02
gotta ask, Did you see any results yet from that specific conversation that you had?
 
Matt Pine  02:08
Dasa, one of the key takeaways there was drones that continue to grow the blue list, which is awesome. We still have a lot to do there, and they start pushing technical data as well the requirement for technical data from OEMs. As we acquire new stuff, I've seen that get a little better, awesome.
 
Ryan Connell  02:28
And then, just for the the listeners that may not be familiar, can you just describe what the blue list is?
 
Matt Pine  02:33
Yeah, blue list is an approved list of drones that can be flown by the DOD. It's managed by Defense Innovation University. Sorry, cancel that. It's managed by Defense Innovation units, and they send out a list of drones that have basically been vetted.
 
Ryan Connell  02:51
Got it makes sense. Appreciate it great experience to be able to talk to the Innovation Board. I hope that you get to keep being having a voice. I know some of the things that you're working on, we'll get into here, but appreciate all the things that you said a year ago, and looking forward to seeing some absolute changes from the impacts from the things that you mentioned. So just appreciate you being on the show today.
 
Ryan Connell  02:51
All right, so you and I connected again on LinkedIn. We talked. You kept telling me about Ben, she's and then you sent me a video of what looked like a cooler version of a rubber ducky for my kids bath time. So, like, what the heck is a benchy? Oh, yeah. Let's
 
Matt Pine  03:28
start from the start. So benchy, also one is the benchmark. It's a small tug boat about, yay big. It's used to really test the parameters of a 3d printer to see what it's capable of. It can show you speed, clarity, all kinds of different settings incorporated into one print, which is really why it's the benchmark print, if you will.
 
Ryan Connell  03:50
Are all of the benchmarks are all the benchy boats that are being three printed. Like, is it? Is it? One shape, size, like, is that? Like the standard across three printing like, everyone prints that little ship or boat, or is it, or is there different, different ones being used?
 
Matt Pine  04:07
Yeah, absolutely. It's the it's basically the same file. It's been around for forever. It's really a test. There's like, speed bench competitions, there's all kinds of cool stuff that go down with it. Just to really analyze what a printer is capable of, it really shows you what a printer can do whenever it comes off.
 
Ryan Connell  04:23
Got it. So that's that's crazy, that there's competitions and everything, right? So this is like, there's a, there's a whole society that I wasn't aware of, of the benches. That's really neat.
 
Ryan Connell  04:34
So, so help me understand, like, the Marines are spending some time printing benches or testing different capabilities, like, what's what's the goals? Like, what's the purpose of all that?
 
Matt Pine  04:46
Yeah, that's great question. So if you look at what the Marie core is doing and what our mission is, we are heavily focused on solutions to contested logistics, what does that look like? Is previous. Positioning. Is it all of these different options that we have? Is it sea basing? What is that answer? There's not a single answer, and there's not a single tool that's really the nail in the coffin that solves the problem. Am is bringing the ability for the Marine Corps to do point of need production, is bringing it to the entire world, but the Marine Corps really weaponizing it as point of need production. So let's say I don't know. I'm on an island somewhere, I'm on a boat, and I need a part. I'm not going to have the ability to just reach back and say, Cool, I need that bar. Bring it here now. I have to wait. The supply chain takes time. Am lets us close that gap. Doesn't do it for everything, but for some things, it's the only answer. It's as close to a teleportation as we have. I love it.
 
Ryan Connell  05:46
So an am is additive manufacturing, right? Yes. Just clarify,
 
Matt Pine  05:49
well, advanced manufacturing is the big picture. Yes. All right, I appreciate it covers everything from those small plastic bin sheet they be all the way up to like metal. Got it? Okay?
 
Ryan Connell  06:00
No, that helps. And so we're not talking about print, printing these benches to show that we could print a ship, necessarily, or a boat. We're talking about that's just the standard benchmark for for really printing anything parts, piece parts could be parts on drones. It could be parts on land vehicles. It's really just the benchmark thing to print, to show speed and scale for whatever that future part that might be needed is, Am I saying that correctly? Yeah,
 
Matt Pine  06:27
absolutely. It really shows you the capability the printer. I equated it, I think, when we were talking the first time to the neuro bird ring, like, how fast can you run it? How good is your car? That's kind of the test.
 
Ryan Connell  06:39
And so for what I understood you describing. I mean, we'll get to a point where some of our bigger vessels, or whatever, will actually have these potentially three printers, the devices themselves, on board, so that you're able to print and replicate a part that you need at the point of need, I think, is how you set it.
 
Matt Pine  06:59
Yeah, absolutely, I wouldn't say we'll get to the point. I say we're already there, but we did it this summer. Spent a few weeks out in Hawaii as part of Trident lawyer. We had the joint advanced manufacturing cell out there, and during that time, we deployed a metal printer capability onto the USS Somerset, and we actually produced a part for the ship that broke the day at left port within a week using metal.
 
Ryan Connell  07:26
That's really cool. So the the print, like the print itself, probably doesn't take that long is, so you talk about a week, right? Is there a significant amount of engineering time or, like, we have to have the expertise that can make the file right at the to start? Right? I mean, that's how, that's how this whole process starts,
 
Matt Pine  07:43
 Yeah, the digital model is really the key. And that comes back to the tech data that we've talked about. That lack of Tech Data,
 
Ryan Connell  07:49
you're, you're go, Okay, we're going full circle. Yeah, about
 
Matt Pine  07:53
that, I've talked about this before. So it that lack of data delays the adoption and delays the accuracy of the things that we produce. So if I don't know exactly what the specs aren't apart, I'm trusting a Marie to figure it out and make a file that meets those criteria.
 
Ryan Connell  08:12
 Okay, so, yeah, it's, it's really, you've, you've pieced it together for me. The the importance of delivering the Tech Data from the OEM. OEM is so that we have the data associated to be able to create the file, so that you can 3d print or am products at the point of need correct.
 
Matt Pine  08:31
We can still reverse engineer internally. But that's varying skill levels, and it's, it's not exactly a quick pickup. I mean, a lot of the Marines we have coming through, we run the advanced manufacturing training course right now on the East Coast. And a lot of the junior Marines that we have coming through have been doing it for like, 10 years. They started when they were in junior high for elementaries. So they just pick it up super fast and amazing every day. Yeah,
 
Ryan Connell  08:57
that's incredible. Well, we hit the story in Hawaii. I mean, I think that's really impactful, that this isn't future. This is today. I'm sure there's been some stumbling. You want to talk any lessons learned? Yeah,
 
Matt Pine  09:10
absolutely. So first off, the real key of the Marine Corps success has been the systems, command, program office. They have driven the purchase of all of this technology and equipment, and they pushed it out to the fleet super fast. All the technology is there. We have all the capabilities we need to be successful. We're just delayed in our implementation because we don't have the people with the training and certification to work through it. So we need a, no kidding, certified guy. We're doing it locally. That's great, but it needs to be standardized across the force. It's like any job you have, right? You want somebody to be certified in what they're doing. The second big gap right now is there's not industry standards for a lot of this, because it's new technology, and it's so disruptive, and it's emerging, and it's fighting for its place in the market. And. There's not certified standards for everything. Every machine that gets produced, we've been doing casting and forging for generations, and advanced manufacturing has really, really taken off in, like, the last 10 years. So it's, you're asking a technology and a capability to catch up to that 1000 year gap quickly.
 
Ryan Connell  10:22
I like it curious. My background is in pricing, so I always ask a pricing question, do you have any information, like, in terms of like you talked about the obvious delays and the obvious value add is how quick you can deliver product when you need it? But is there any analysis or opinion from your perspective, like, when you're talking about the part that we might have traditionally bought through the supply chain, compared to the cost to create the data file and then actually three print it, like, is there any analysis there?
 
Matt Pine  10:53
Yeah, so if you analyze it, there is not the significant manpower costs that comes with traditional manufacturing. We don't have to pay those guys. We already do. It's their job. But the back end, we looked at one part that we produced for one single optic, and the Marine Corps spending $5 million a year just on that one in if we can come through and fix, let's say, half of those, 10% of those, we're saving half a million dollars. So that's just with one piece on one part, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
Ryan Connell  11:27
Yeah, so that's that's intense. So, so in addition to all of the goodness that comes with warfighter needs in terms of delivering the product faster, we're also talking about a significant price reduction,
 
Matt Pine  11:39
absolutely. And I think as we shift industry is shifting right? It's going to industry 4.0 or 4.5 or whatever you want to call it. Was advancing technology. We have to really look at how we do acquisitions, and kind of look at a Tech Data licensing concept, where we pay as we need it, and we get the data that we need, and then they put it back behind the paywall. Once we produce whatever it is, it's
 
Ryan Connell  12:05
interesting, because we're talking about like our acquisition system is a commercial first kind of focused system, right? And so logically, not that this actually always happens, but logically, we should be buying commercials the maximum extent practical. And I assume because of like, IP related things, when we're buying, like, commercial type products or off the shelf, we're not probably getting the OEM type tech data that you probably need in order to make your data file. Is that pretty accurate?  

Matt Pine  12:33
Yes, absolutely, and it's completely understandable you have to protect what you own. But when we start looking again at contested logistics, how do I get the parts where I'm at when I need them? And part of that is having that tech data available, not all the time, but at least available for us to reach into and support the warfighter wherever they're at, whether that's through DLA or sea basing, that can produce things. Who knows. But there has to be some sort of mechanism to get that data to the right spot, so we're sure that what we're producing meets the standards. 
 
Ryan Connell  13:06
Yeah, that's interesting. It's almost like if you could create some sort of like market that you only need to pay for it if you actually really needed it, and someone makes a good business decision that it's worth spending x amount of dollars to buy the drawing, but they'll give it back. We'll just use it for this one time kind of thing. Yeah, you're gonna, I'm gonna have like, two in the morning thoughts about that.
 
Matt Pine  13:27
Yeah, I mean, it keeps me up. Like, how does that work? Right? Right? It could be a drip feed where we, hey, we're printing it on this, and they upload the data required, and it's encrypted, and once it's done, it's wiped, and we can't access it again. Who knows, Ken? Like we're barely touching the edge of what this really could be, because we're locked into what it's always been. Sure,
 
Ryan Connell  13:49
I love that. So I like the I like the lessons learned. I like what you've done with the story in Hawaii.
 
Ryan Connell  13:49
I'm curious. Like, it sounds like that's is that potentially one of the first examples of success. And if not, you have more. And if not, I'm kind of curious, like, where you like, how do we scale? Like, what's next? Like, I'm loving what you're doing, what you're talking about, like, how do we, how do we get to this vision?
 
Matt Pine  14:14
So that's probably the biggest and best example. It's definitely the largest joint exercise that's happened. We had sailors and soldiers and Marines all on a ship producing carts, and they were able to reach back to shore and get data from us to produce it. That's really the apex of what we talk about when we talk about utilizing this capability. But what does the future look like we we have to have certified people to certify the parts that we make. We have to have a standard certification that says, Yes, you have this stamp, I guarantee everything you make meets the criteria. We have another roadblock that you will run into. In the program, and when you're working through this is, Hey, what is this supposed to do? What are the original specs? And you reach out, and nobody has those answers, because it's just not there. So trying to recreate to something that nobody knows is a very, surprisingly a very difficult metric to hit. Who would have thought.
 
Ryan Connell  15:18
awesome? No, I appreciate that. I didn't. I didn't, I didn't know anything about benches a month ago, and so the the conversation has enlightened me, for sure. I'm curious, like, like, what is there anything specifically that you're doing on a day to day? Like, in terms of, like, this is, this is your life, like, this is what you're working on day to day, and is there? Like, how can we I mean, obviously we're a podcast that we're echoing and trying to amplify your message and trying to get people to get excited about it. But like, what else can the community do?  
Matt Pine  15:53
So the other big step on the Marine Corps side, specifically looking at the Marine Corps, is we have to get integrated into our existing programs of record. So we have what's called gcss Marine Corps. It is our basically supply maintenance, life cycle statement software. We have to get everything integrated in there, because realistically, we talked about, we're on Defense Innovation Board, right? If it can't be inspected, I don't really care about it. The standardization creates an inspectability and an accountability that is lifelong, and then from there, we can move forward. So we have to be able to track what's being produced by what where, and be able to see it at any given point that would be the end state of what the true future looks like. It may be five years from now, and maybe six months from now? Who knows, but that's really what we're working on. The last few steps of integration. 
 
Ryan Connell  16:46
Got it, and so is your vision then, that, you know, take a part on a ship like you had in Hawaii, like that, somewhere, whether it's you or someone who's someone has a database of the entire map supply chain and the tech data associated with it, right? I mean, like, that's a unicorn in defense acquisition world, so I can only imagine it's a big deal for you as well. But is that where you're trying to get to like that you need effectively that?
 
Matt Pine  17:18
Yeah, absolutely. We have 1500 ish parts right now in our digital database, which have digital models with varying levels of technical data associated with it. But that's a drop in the bucket. That's nothing compared to when you need to so to link that to the supply system, where the supply system looks and says, okay, cool. I have an estimated ship date of July of next year. What can I do about this? Step one? Have you looked at your supplemental source of supply, known as am? Right now, we're not doing that very aggressively, and the more that we implement it, the stronger that database is going to get, the bigger it's going to get, the more accurate it's going to be, the more eyes that are going to be on it. It's a like a small startup inside of a much larger, larger organization. Put it that way, gosh,
 
Ryan Connell  18:09
this is interesting, right? Because I I'm thinking about all the things that may be relevant to our acquisition listeners as well. So like it in your mind if, if I'm working on an acquisition that includes a whole bill of material page, and there is a bill of material item that has a long lead time, and I know that your database is really small, but should I be looking at your database to be like, hey, there is an alternative that we should highlight here that can be manufactured by by Matt and his Team. Like is, is that something that we should be thinking about?
 
Matt Pine  18:43
So that would be great. It's, I think that's a hard business model to get to, like we talked about already, right? You have to protect your income. You have to protect your property. That's just inherent to business. And we discussed this with a few OEMs, and it usually comes back to you. Well, there's not really a supply problem. My apple on the shelf. I'll send it to you so there, there's some gaps that ever like. It's not a solution for everything, but there's definitely at least having that Tech Data in the background that somebody can get to and make it somewhere else. And I'll even pay you to make it. I just need it a lot faster than you're going to get it through casting, forging, whatever it is. Got it?
 
Ryan Connell  19:26
I know, I know DLA has a like a reverse engineering capability. I don't know if you guys have ever interacted with them, but that might be a good point of contact for you.
 
Matt Pine  19:36
Yeah, absolutely. And I just saw a news article. I didn't dive into it, but they actually just did their first contract for advanced manufacturing as well. Oh, deal I did, or at least eight,
 
Ryan Connell  19:47
yes. Oh, very cool. That's awesome. Let me just bounce it to you in terms of like, anything that else you want to really just highlight, in terms of like, what, where you think this is going, or how we get there. And I. How much of an impact this can make and what we can do to help you. 
 
Matt Pine  20:03
Yeah, so first off disclaimer, I guess this is like last off, but a disclaimer for folks who are curious whether or not am is for them, I would highly discourage you from looking into am if you are completely satisfied with supply chain and how it supports you. And if you can't see a future where you're in a contested environment and you need something at the point of need, if neither of those apply to you, just don't worry about it. Yet beyond that, someday, somewhere, a lens Corporal is going to sit down, he's going to type in a part that he needs, or call it in over the radio, and somebody's going to look at a database and say, I have that part, they're going to create the supply requisition, and it's either going to get produced where that Marines at signal by whoever was reviewing the process, or at the nearest location, and cut that supply chain down. We've done it, but it's not systemically integrated to where it's normal operating procedures. So, yeah, got it. Eventually we're gonna get there. 
 
Ryan Connell  21:06
Got it. No, this is awesome before, before we we caught Do you have anything else you want to add? I mean, I know this. Yeah, give anything else you want to add? 
 
Matt Pine  21:17
No, I appreciate you calling me on it was a good time. Hopefully the message is conveyed appropriately, and interested parties get more interested. If you're in the Marine Corps right now, and you're on any coast or anywhere within the Marine Corps, I would highly encourage you to reach out to your local Makerspace Training Center, whatever it is you have in your ao, there's a ton of knowledge and capability out there, but it's compacted into a few handfuls Marines right now, and it needs to get proliferated to really take off. So if you're interested, reach out. Start asking your commands. We'll come find you.  
Ryan Connell  21:50
And is that, is that database? Is that like something that you all retain, or is that something that you make available to marine wide or to anyone with the mill? Or what's How do you access that?
 
Matt Pine  22:00
Great question. Anybody with the dot mail access can reach the website and see everything that's on. 
 
Ryan Connell  22:06
Awesome. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, Matt, appreciate you being on today. Thank you.